SPOILER ALERT: This story includes spoilers from “Day One,” Season 2, Episode 4 of “The Closing of Us,” now streaming on Max.
When Isabela Merced met with “The Closing of Us” creators Craig Mazin and Neil Druckmann, she was accustomed to the availability supplies for the second season of the HBO drama, the video recreation “The Closing of Us Half II” — nonetheless she had no thought what perform they’d in ideas for her. “They solely requested me fundamental questions, trying to get my character down,” she said in an interview earlier this week, all through which she was combating a cold, and began by apologizing upfront for any future coughing. Mazin and Druckmann immediately cast her as Dina — the Jackson-based biggest good good friend and love curiosity of Ellie (Bella Ramsey) — and Merced remembers contemplating, “Oh my God, that could be a lot higher than I assumed!”
Dina is a major character in “Half II,” nonetheless since Merced obtained only one script at time for Season 2, it took her a while to grasp Mazin and Druckmann had elevated her character to the sequence’ co-lead alongside Ramsey’s Bella. Nevertheless their willpower made sense to her. “Because of Dina’s type of a transparent slate, and a clear internet web page in loads of strategies,” Merced said, Mazin, Druckmann and “The Closing of Us” writers had been able to make use of the character to greater facilitate the “transition from the game to the TV current.” And since Dina, as written for television, is a ray of sunshine in Ellie’s sad, demanding life — which turns into exponentially sadder after Abby (Kaitlyn Dever) exacts revenge on Joel (Pedro Pascal), murdering him sooner than Ellie’s eyes — solely when she is with Dina does Ellie rework into the carefree character audiences knew throughout the current’s first season. “Like, OK, Ellie’s really fucked up and indignant,” Merced said. “Nevertheless each time Dina’s spherical, it’s like she instantly is able to entry the enjoyment that she as quickly as felt.”
In “Day One,” Season 2’s fourth episode, Ellie and Dina are cautiously navigating Seattle, the place they’re on the hunt for Abby to take their very personal revenge. As the two of them cruise spherical on horseback by the use of the city’s (historically queer) Capitol Hill neighborhood, they shock about all the rainbow flags. “I don’t know — maybe they’re all optimists,” Ellie says.
The episode, written by Mazin, and directed by Kate Herron, is a colossus. Dina learns lastly that Ellie is immune from cordyceps an an infection, after which they confess their feelings for each other, and have intercourse for the first time. Oh, and since Dina learns she’s pregnant early throughout the episode — her on as soon as extra, off as soon as extra boyfriend Jesse (Youthful Mazino) is the daddy — she tells Ellie about her plans for his or her future, as she’d envisioned them: plans she observed disappearing after Ellie is bitten by a clicker. “I assumed you had been gone, after which impulsively, this future I was imagining wasn’t going to happen — the place we’re collectively and have a baby,” Dina says. “I don’t know in case you even want that.” Ellie replies: “I want it with you.”
There’s no shortage of movement in “Day One” each. Ellie is bitten on the end of an elaborate, stunts-filled sequence, as Ellie and Dina face every the Wolves and, after they descend proper right into a subway tunnel, a horde of contaminated on the subway itself. Moreover they witness the brutality of the Scars’ practices for the first time, after they arrive all through the eerie, horrifying sight of a room filled with hanged lifeless our our bodies: Wolves which had been lynched and disemboweled.
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What an unlikely episode to end in such poignant professions of affection, correct? And however, that’s “The Closing of Us” for you. As a result of the episode attracts to an in depth, Ellie appears as if her earlier self as soon as extra, exuberantly celebrating: “So we’re all having a baby. Holy shit! I’m gonna be a dad.” Nevertheless they know they’re in Seattle for a function. The episode ends with Ellie and Dina, on the roof of the theater that’s develop to be their refuge, attempting in direction of the place they assume Abby must be. When Ellie tries to tell Dina she doesn’t should associate with her, that her being pregnant has modified points, Dina demurs. Dina reaches out her hand, says “collectively” — the last word image is them holding fingers, attempting grimly into the house.
Merced, who’s initially from Cleveland, Ohio, began performing as a toddler, and has starred in movies equal to 2019’s “Dora and the Misplaced Metropolis of Gold” and 2024’s “Alien: Romulus.” In a far-ranging interview, Merced talked about working with the current’s intimacy coordinator on Dina and Ellie’s first time having intercourse with each other, why the subway vehicle sequence necessitated her making a “secret sign language” with Ramsey — and what the current’s LGBTQ illustration means for her as a queer actor.
When you acquired this perform, did you understand how central Dina is to Season 2? It’s really the Ellie-Dina season. When did you’re employed that out?
I solely acquired one episode at a time, so I was merely finding out as I went on. I consider the writers wanted to fluctuate a bit bit about this transition from the game to the TV current, and since Dina’s type of a transparent slate — and like a clear internet web page in loads of strategies — they use Dina to bridge it. Moreover, Ellie’s really darkish and really brooding throughout the second recreation, and I actually really feel like they wanted to confirm to incorporate further of how Ellie was throughout the first season, and the first recreation. Like, OK, Ellie’s really fucked up and indignant, nonetheless each time Dina’s spherical, it’s like she instantly is able to entry the enjoyment that she as quickly as felt.
I moreover assume Dina’s serving to Ellie grieve in a method — however moreover Ellie’s serving to Dina grieve. I consider Dina’s redirecting her grief and putting it on Ellie and being like, “Oh, I’ll present assist to.” Like that one good good friend who will help anyone nonetheless themselves is how I see Dina.
I didn’t anticipate it to be this big of a job, nonetheless I’m really glad. I moreover really love that they’re doing a gradual burn with the romance versus throughout the recreation, it was immediately. I consider they’re being really cautious with how they’re presenting the Sapphic story, and the authenticity of it.
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Fully. However it certainly was clear to me from Dina’s and Ellie’s first scenes collectively throughout the Season 2 premiere that Dina is into Ellie — prolonged sooner than the New Yr’s Eve kiss, even. The connection merely feels so lived in and precise. How did you assemble that with Bella Ramsey?
Truly, we didn’t really get a chance to assemble it. We had been doing loads of prep earlier to the season and taking footage it, and I was moreover filming “Superman” concurrently the current. I was doing principally bodily teaching. Bella was doing bodily teaching, stunts teaching, because of Bella has that sequence with the Stalker throughout the first episode. So we really didn’t get lots time to get there. I was just like, “OK, successfully, it’s what it’s.” I indicate, I was nervous, I’d say, higher than one thing. Nevertheless day zero we went in, we shot that first scene the place Dina entails get Ellie for patrol and makes pleasing of her Converse. And Craig was great excited from that second on. Nevertheless I don’t assume that was the day my anxiousness was relieved. I consider the day that my anxiousness was relieved was all through the digital digital camera examine, and it merely felt really correct.
This story will run after Episode 4, nonetheless in Episode 3, clearly Dina wants one factor to happen throughout the tent. Is that how the two of you carried out it?
It was on a regular basis them every dancing spherical their feelings, and I consider that was what we would have liked to be careful of. The director Peter Hoar was really cautious about what emotion we confirmed and when — notably, reserving the true emotions after we’re not having a look at each other, and really putting on the masks after we’re. That scene is definitely important, because of it’s not solely merely together with to the pressure that’s already there, nonetheless every of them most certainly actually really feel accountable for feeling some type of giddiness about their romance. And Dina feels accountable because of she appears like she’s betraying Jesse; Ellie feels accountable because of she appears like she’s betraying Joel.
There was a mannequin the place Ellie’s Dina’s physique, and it was sexual in a method? And you’d see her wheels handing over her head. Nevertheless I’m really glad they eliminated that, solely because of I consider it’s merely smarter as regards to the overall telling of it. I consider it’s quite much less on the nostril, and a bit bit further nuanced — I really like that they’re spacing it out this way.
Ellie would actually have been killed minute one with out Dina — like, thank God Dina goes collectively along with her. After they get to Seattle, they go proper right into a music retailer, and Ellie sings “Take On Me,” which is a cutscene from the game. You instructed us on the junket that you just beloved that scene from the game, and had been joyful it was throughout the current. Can you focus on why?
I indicate, I cried as soon as I watched that scene, and I hadn’t acknowledged that I was having fun with Dina however, so it was unbiased tears. Music has on a regular basis been an entry degree to my emotions. It means lots to me for thus many causes.
I like that they incorporate that Ellie’s realized the guitar from Joel. It’s like her second of joyful grief, because of there’s so many flavors to grief: There’s the sad sort, the type that sneaks up on you, the shock sort — after which the joyful sort the place you’re grieving the joyful moments in a joyful method, and maybe you shed joyful tear. I consider for lots of causes, Dina is feeling emotional, because of to begin with, Ellie’s fucking gorgeous and she or he’s adoring her in every method. However moreover I consider she’s grieving Joel too in that second. And maybe in my head I was like, “Has Dina ever heard this monitor sooner than?” As far as she’s concerned, it’s the first time she’s heard this masterpiece, and it’s a private solo effectivity by the person she loves — about and for the one that the person she loves loves.
Was Bella Ramsey actually singing and having fun with?
Yeah, Bella Ramsey is a really gifted musician, and likewise has their very personal songs that they’ve written all via the years. And I had the pleasure of attending to take heed to that behind the scenes. We would sometimes ship a guitar, and play for each other.
The easiest way Dina is having a look at Ellie with such love, it feels so precise. Can you focus on getting there?
I was excited to shoot it, after which I was moreover really emotional, because of the set design being so gorgeous and it feeling a really actually sweet and tender second throughout the current after lots darkness and loss. So I was very emotional that day. And likewise maybe it was my first day of my interval — I don’t know, I consider I remember it was. At any time when it’s the first day of my interval, I’m solely a successfully of emotions. It was really exhausting for me to not cry. And I’m on a regular basis, a lot much less is further — a lot much less dialogue is more healthy, in case you may say it alongside together with your eyes, say it alongside together with your eyes. After which a lot much less emotion in your face, or holding it once more, is more healthy. So I was combating that, actually, on the day, because of I wanted to order each factor a bit bit further.
And in some unspecified time sooner or later, even the director was like, “Hey, maybe attempt to not cry?” It was really, really exhausting for me. And so that was my wrestle all via all the scene — merely trying to not cry. I seen when watching it simply these days that there was a change from the loving look to a unhappiness in my eyes. I was trying to remember what I was contemplating, and I consider it was just like I wanted to incorporate that Dina isn’t fearless, really? She may seem like it. She may seem like she is going to cope with masses, and all via the episode you research that she is going to’t. Nevertheless I wanted to offer of us a glimpse into that, because of love is horrifying. So for her to essentially really feel these emotions, after which in precise time be petrified of them, was really important to me. Because of I consider that’s cheap.
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Inside the reverse of that scene’s vibe, Dina and Ellie then come all through disemboweled, lynched people who’ve been killed by the Scars. Did they’ve our our bodies there, or had been they put in later?
That was actually fake our our bodies, nonetheless they appeared really cheap and they also had been hung up on that wall. And it was utterly terrifying and disgusting, and it really ruined my day to be there. Uncanny valley is a time interval for a function: The thoughts can solely take lots false knowledge that’s appears to be precise.
Yeah, exactly. I indicate, was it as freaky to see that as a result of it was as soon as I observed it on show?
Yeah, it was disturbing and yeah, the vibes had been hostile for optimistic. It really reminded me loads of my experience with “Alien: Romulus,” the place it was just one diploma of concern, then the following diploma, after which an increasing number of merely developing that merely to in the end attain the full-fledged adrenaline rush that comes with survival. I’m glad I had which have, because of it undoubtedly expert me for this.
With the scene throughout the subway tunnels, Dina and Ellie are actually saved from the Wolves by the contaminated horde — and Dina’s trying to rely them, nonetheless she doesn’t have enough fingers. The place should I start with questions for you regarding the sequence? It was such an unlimited set piece.
It was massive. Oh my God. And it was undoubtedly really troublesome. I consider we spent per week in there, I don’t even know. It felt like a blur. And each time we might, we’d merely try to flee outside and get some photo voltaic. It was really, really darkish.
And I merely remember pleasing information about that, I assume, could be that set dec is supposed to have some type of soil and mud as cooperated, nonetheless loads of events they use the fertilizer, which has manure in it. Nevertheless they didn’t have enough time to arrange, I assume, in order that they launched throughout the manure and it hadn’t had time to air out. So practically all of which have, it smelled like shit. It was really disgusting. Moreover, Dina’s doing loads of cardio, Ellie’s doing loads of cardio working spherical. There are tons of contaminated, and it was actually solely a crazy experience. Quite a bit occurring.
Courtesy of Liane Hentscher / HBO
Had been these subway automobiles really rocking? Was it exhausting to take care of your steadiness?
Yeah, that they had been actually rocking. I consider they could’ve been on a sort of mechanical stands, however moreover on the equivalent time, they really had the groups of people pushing on them. I’ll actively actually really feel myself bouncing from one end of the auto to the alternative, after which moreover having to shoot the weapons within the correct place — it was a really crazy sequence. It took a really very long time to do.
Nevertheless resulting from which have, Bella and I ended up making a secret language — that was the sequence throughout which we created a secret sign language to solely discuss with each other about what it’s that we had been cosy with or uncomfortable with when it received right here to what that they had been asking of us. After which moreover if we wished to pee or if we wished to…
Wait, wait, wait. What do you indicate, cosy with bodily?
Yeah, cosy with bodily. You don’t ever should be that one person who goes, “Oh, I actually don’t want to do that” — because of then as a youthful woman, you hazard a reputation. So we should really be allies for each other, and we communicated first contained in the safety of us two, after which we’d go, “Successfully, we’re going to every say that we don’t have to do it.”
By the use of stunts, or what types of —
Yeah.
So you’d faucet in a stunt double at a certain degree in case you wanted to?
Yeah, utterly. That they had been on a regular basis there, and most of the time HBO hottest that they did it. Nevertheless Bella is anyone very excited regarding the movement, and maybe it’s because of they’re youthful than me, and I’ve been doing this for thus prolonged, I’m like, “Ah, I don’t receives a fee to do stuff, so I’m good! There’s somebody who has that job for a function.”
In spite of everything. Did you emerge unscathed? Had been you OK?
Yeah, honestly, I was advantageous. I didn’t really actually really feel unsafe ever. That they had been really on it. It’s the perks of being a part of such a big-budget manufacturing.
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After Ellie is bitten, she says to Dina, “I’d die for you. I’d, nonetheless that’s not what occurred” — since Dina doesn’t know that Ellie is immune. Can you focus on filming that scene?
Yeah, that was robust. That was pretty emotional. I consider I merely went to a really darkish place to have the power to essentially really feel that inside battle, which I’ve on no account really felt that sooner than. I consider we spent maybe half the day doing that — it really wasn’t that prolonged. And I really wanted the viewers to think about that Dina may actually shoot her. So I wanted to essentially really feel that battle or else — I indicate, I merely really like, if I don’t actually really feel it, then no one’s going to essentially really feel it. That’s how my philosophy is.
Successfully, you most likely did good. You’ve received Ellie at gunpoint with tears working down your face — it was very environment friendly, I assumed. Nevertheless was that what you indicate about the best way it was exhausting holding these two points, like your love of Ellie and being like, “OK, certain, I’d kill this particular person”?
Yeah, it was two extreme emotions combating the alternative to win, after which me having to resolve as soon as I wanted to incorporate what and the best way. And going off of Bella’s effectivity, I consider what Bella gave me was it felt really true and decided, so I consider that confuses Dina way more. After which moreover the street about, “I’m immune.” At first, Dina undoubtedly doesn’t think about Ellie, and is form of in a method, “Once you’re lying, you’re a bit of shit. And in case you’re telling the actuality, you’re a bit of shit,” principally. She’s like, “How dare you?” In each circumstance, it’s a how dare you? state of affairs. So I consider there’s loads of anger there too. It’s the anger, it’s the love, it’s the confusion. It’s the unhappiness.
And when Ellie doesn’t flip, Dina tells her she’s pregnant and kisses her, after which they’ve intercourse for the first time. Did you film that scene in a number of strategies?
Yeah, I’m trying to remember what the chronology of it was. I consider we undoubtedly shot the buildup to the kiss and each factor after the gunpoint state of affairs. We had loads of time to shoot that, actually — further time than we did with the holding Ellie at gunpoint after the chew sequence. They really wanted to confirm the cinematography was on degree, because you don’t see Dina for the first part of that because of the flashlight, which I consider is definitely clever. And it presents me a chance to hype myself up, and really merely actually really feel anxious and get me to that place. After which the flashlight turns off, the torch is on. And that choreography was attention-grabbing, too, because of it’s like, why does she flip off the flashlight and get the torch? How do I make that make sense? Because of visually, it’s gorgeous, nonetheless practicality-wise… Nevertheless I do assume it’s sensible: I consider Dina wants Ellie to see her concern and her face and whatnot. I’m really pleased with the best way it went.
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How did you navigate the intercourse scene? Did you’re employed with the director Kate Herron on it, and was there an intimacy coordinator?
We labored masses with an intimacy coordinator. Her determine was Kathy [Kadler], and she or he was really good. She made us actually really feel really cosy, however moreover we had already labored collectively for higher than half the season at the moment. Ellie and I had been really cosy too. I consider what we would have liked to confirm was that higher than one thing there was some type of consent throughout the scene, because of they’re clearly every in very vulnerable positions. So we had been very detailed about that scene. All of us had ideas, correct? Because of we would have liked it to be engaging. We would have liked it to be emotional and charged, however moreover smart and current their relationship and the best way it’s going to fluctuate now that this barrier has been broken. Significantly, I wanted Dina to be the one to unzip her private pants, take Ellie’s hand and actively data it down her physique. Because of even supposing Ellie is technically the one who’s on prime, I consider it’s exhibiting they every have firm on this willpower to take it to the following step. And I consider it was gorgeous. And I consider, yeah, we made some really sensible alternatives there.
I do like that morning breath points even throughout the apocalypse. Dina’s hair seems unimaginable your total time, by the best way through which. Are you watching it once more, like, “Wow, that’s hair that holds up!”?
Yeah, really. Truly!
In order that they lastly confess their feelings for one another. And when Ellie asks, “Why now?” Dina tells Ellie she must elevate the toddler collectively along with her, and that Ellie’s the one. How did the two of you ship such sweetness to that scene?
They lastly have the fact available on the market. And everytime you do lastly confess that — ego aside, points aside, after which concern aside — it’s like your coronary coronary heart merely opens up, and there’s this sweetness. Significantly with women, as quickly as we’re cosy with each other, it’s like we don’t have any concern with that expression of affection. And I wanted to confirm, certain, basically probably the most tense half is over, nonetheless there’s nonetheless an depth to their love for each other. I consider each factor felt so tender that day, even after we had been taking footage it, Bella and I had been merely so cosy with each other. And likewise, we every have experience in queer relationships — you might merely inform when a girl hasn’t kissed a girl sooner than. You might merely actually really feel it. So every of us had been already advantageous and cozy, and so we may very well uncover. We added some kisses that weren’t throughout the genuine script. We added some moments that weren’t there merely based off of our comfortability with each other.
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The episode ends with Dina and Ellie on the roof attempting in direction of the place they assume Abby is, holding fingers — and Dina says, “Collectively.” I’ve seen all the season, so I perceive how refined points get, nonetheless it’s so extremely efficient in that second. As a queer particular person, what does it indicate to you to have that sort of illustration on such a big current?
I indicate, it’s superior! No one actually thinks I’m queer, which is okay. I don’t really care. I’m an actor, so I can play anyone, correct? Nevertheless for it to indicate lots to me personally is good and grand. And I merely take into accounts of us from my hometown who maybe have on no account seen this side of me watching this and really attending to know me in a method, and understanding me and them really seeing it on a giant scale. After which picturing anyone maybe who was like me: Grew up Catholic, shoved down their emotions and maybe must be an actor — because you’d be shocked. There’s loads of these explicit archetypes in Ohio!
Significantly Ohio?
Yeah, or just middle America. That to me is definitely, really important, and superior. And that’s what was so cool regarding the recreation and the availability supplies: It was really ahead of its time. I indicate, although now we’ve got to thank loads of the lesbian love story to Halley Gross who was launched in for the second recreation and really was an advocate for Ellie and Dina’s relationship and really took lead when it received right here to the physicality and the romance of it — because of I consider Neil didn’t actually really feel like he was the one which was capable of telling that story, or maybe even cosy with it. So yeah, shout out Halley.
Points solely get harder for Dina and Ellie in Season 3. How are you preparing for that?
It’s going to be weird performing like I don’t like Bella. It’s going to be exhausting, because of I’ve such a sweet spot for them now. Nevertheless I don’t know. I’ve tried to ask Craig, nonetheless I don’t assume he even really is conscious of however completely how points are going to be. Nevertheless I’ve my very personal enter that I’ve already texted him about with methods as to how everyone reacts to the ending of Season 2, and the best way I consider Dina — now that she’s modified lots from the game — how she would react to the events that occur. And I’m so excited to discuss Episode 7, because of that to me is a big shift for his or her relationship, and what happens when the fact is revealed.
Have you ever learnt everytime you’re starting manufacturing?
No, nonetheless I consider it should be subsequent 12 months.
Can’t be rapidly enough!
This interview has been edited and (barely!) condensed.
